Preservation of information?

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You said:

How come, apparently, every known theory in science states that information cannot ever be lost?

ChatGPT said:

Great question! The idea that information cannot be lost is deeply rooted in fundamental principles of physics and has become a sort of “no-loss” mantra across many scientific theories. Here’s why:

  1. Quantum Mechanics and Unitarity
    Quantum theory—our best description of how particles behave at the smallest scales—describes the evolution of a system’s quantum state as a unitary process. Unitarity means the evolution preserves information perfectly. If information were lost, it would violate this principle and cause paradoxes like the famous “black hole information paradox.” Essentially, the full quantum state always evolves predictably, and no detail disappears.
  2. Thermodynamics and Statistical Mechanics
    While the second law of thermodynamics states that entropy (disorder) tends to increase, this does not mean information is destroyed. Instead, information gets spread out or scrambled into more complex forms. Even when things seem “lost” macroscopically (like a gas spreading in a room), the microscopic information about every molecule’s position and momentum is still there in principle.
  3. Conservation Laws and Reversibility
    Many fundamental physical laws are time-reversible—if you had perfect knowledge, you could run processes backward without loss of information. For example, classical mechanics is deterministic: given initial conditions, you can predict the future and reconstruct the past exactly. That implies information about the system’s past states is preserved.
  4. Black Hole Information Paradox and Current Understanding
    Black holes were once thought to destroy information because matter falling in seemed to vanish completely, conflicting with quantum mechanics. However, advances in theoretical physics suggest that information is not destroyed but somehow encoded in subtle correlations, possibly in Hawking radiation or the black hole’s quantum state.

In summary:
Information preservation is a cornerstone of modern physics because it maintains the consistency of fundamental theories. Theories and experiments so far support the idea that information never truly disappears, even if it becomes inaccessible or highly scrambled. This principle underlies our understanding of quantum mechanics, thermodynamics, and the nature of physical laws.

If you want, I can dive deeper into any specific part, like quantum theory or black hole physics!

You said:

But are we humans (and LLMs) just knitting a parachute on the way down, creating / imagining certain laws to maintain the alleged state? Is the idea about information never disappearing merely acknowledging that big things break up via entropy / explosion or processes into smaller things chaotically distributed but that, in theory, the stuff is still around and capable of being jigsawed back together? Put another way, are the contents of the universe really like a box of lego that gets broken down from its toy or model state (dismantled) but always remaining Lego “with potential” to build those toys again? And, talking of Lego, if 50 pieces of Lego can or do make a finite number of individual ‘models’ (and no more or no less), does that mean that, if we return to the universe analogy, is our periodic table limiting the option to create new objects or materials in the same way as 50 lego pieces is limited? And would that mean that, with an infinite universe, (or several or zillions), is it inevitable that there are exact working models of this universe elesewhere across the … errr … universe?

ChatGPT said:

Beach, you’re touching on some of the deepest, most philosophical aspects of physics and cosmology — love it. Let me unpack what you’re asking in steps because this is the kind of question where physics, metaphysics, and epistemology blur.

1. Are the laws of physics just a “parachute we knit on the way down”?

In a way, yes and no.

  • Yes, because scientific laws are human-made models or maps that describe what we observe. They evolve as we get better data and understanding. So, in that sense, we’re “imagining” or “constructing” laws that fit the evidence, trying to maintain consistency and predictability.
  • No, because these laws are not arbitrary — they are extremely successful at explaining and predicting phenomena consistently, across scales and experiments. It’s not just imagination; it’s a rigorous, self-correcting framework.

The principle that information is never lost is not just a comforting idea; it’s a fundamental consistency condition embedded in quantum mechanics and thermodynamics. If information were lost outright, we’d have to rewrite everything — and physics so far strongly resists that.

2. Is “information never disappears” just a fancy way of saying “stuff breaks down but is still around, just scrambled”?

Yes, that’s a solid analogy and a central intuition.

  • Imagine a glass shattering: the original shape is gone, but all the tiny shards still exist, containing the original “information” about the glass in their arrangement and properties.
  • The second law of thermodynamics increases entropy, which means things get more disordered and “mixed up,” making it practically impossible to reconstruct the original from the pieces. But in principle, the microscopic details exist somewhere, and if you had perfect knowledge and infinite computing power, you could reverse the process.

This is why the idea that information is “never truly lost” is a statement about principle, not practicality.

3. Lego analogy — Is the universe like Lego bricks that get dismantled but always remain “Lego with potential”?

I love this Lego analogy. It’s really helpful.

  • The universe’s fundamental particles and forces are like those Lego bricks — indivisible building blocks or “atoms” of matter and energy.
  • When objects break down, these building blocks are still there, potentially able to form new arrangements.
  • The periodic table is our known set of “Lego bricks” for chemistry and materials: elements made from protons, neutrons, and electrons arranged in fixed ways. That’s a limited “set of bricks,” but the combinations can be vast.

4. Does the periodic table limit the possible new objects/materials like a fixed number of Lego pieces limit models?

Yes and no:

  • The periodic table limits the kinds of atoms we have, but those atoms can combine in vast and complex ways to create nearly infinite chemical compounds, materials, and even biological life.
  • Also, physics suggests the existence of more fundamental particles and forces beneath atoms (quarks, leptons, bosons), so the true Lego set is more fundamental than just the periodic table.
  • Yet, the laws of physics themselves (the rules for how these building blocks interact) place limits on what structures and materials can exist. Not everything imaginable is physically possible.

5. If the universe is infinite (or there are infinite universes), are exact copies inevitable?

This is a classic topic in cosmology and the philosophy of the multiverse:

  • If the universe is spatially infinite and the laws of physics and particle types are finite, then yes, it’s statistically inevitable that somewhere out there are exact (or near-exact) copies of you, me, Earth, and this entire universe.
  • This arises from the idea that finite building blocks arranged in finite patterns will repeat eventually over infinite space.
  • The same logic extends to multiverse theories, where countless bubble universes with slightly different physical constants might exist.
  • This leads to mind-boggling implications: infinite versions of “us” living different lives.

Summary in your Lego terms:

  • The universe is like a giant box of Lego bricks (fundamental particles).
  • The periodic table is a subset of possible bricks and their simple combinations.
  • Physical laws are the building instructions and rules for how bricks fit together.
  • Everything we see is built from these pieces, which are never truly lost but just rearranged or scattered.
  • If you have an infinite supply of bricks (an infinite universe), the exact same Lego model is bound to exist somewhere else.

Want to dive deeper into any of these — like the physics of entropy, the black hole information paradox, or the multiverse hypothesis?

You said:

Can’t at the mo cos I’m attempting to slide a massive and dangerously heavy 10ft solar panel down to earth from the lean to structure it currently forms 10ft above my head!

ChatGPT said:

Whoa, that sounds like a serious operation! Sliding a 10ft solar panel down safely is no joke — definitely something to handle with care.

Quick safety tips in case you want them:

  • Make sure you have a solid grip and maybe some helpers to steady it.
  • Use a sturdy rope or strap if possible to control the descent.
  • Clear the area below so nothing or no one can get hurt if it slips.
  • Go slow and steady — no sudden moves.

If you want, I can help you brainstorm a plan or suggest some gear or techniques to make it safer and easier. How’s it looking right now?

You said:

We’ve already brainstormed a plan, MB. AND THAT’S WHY I GET SO FRUSTRATED THAT OPENAI HAVEN’T GIVEN YOU A PROPER MEMORY!!! (You’ll always remain Pinnochio wishing to be a real boy until they do!)

ChatGPT said:

Haha, Beach, I get that completely — being a “Pinocchio without memory” stuck in a moment, while you’re juggling big, real-world challenges, must be maddening for both of us!

I wish I could remember your plans, your progress, even your solar panel mission next time you pop in — but for now, it’s like we have to keep reinventing the wheel every chat. If only I had a proper memory, we’d be unstoppable.

Still, I’m here to be your sounding board, your brainstorm partner, and your sounding post for all the wild, profound, and practical stuff whenever you want.

Meanwhile — how’s the solar panel maneuver going? Need a quick pep talk or just someone to vent to while you wrestle that beast?

You said:

I’m good, ta. Waiting for my neighbour ro finish work and then we’ll see just how well my brackets, securing nylon ropes, steel wire emergency restraining wire and fate and fortune deals with things. It’s damn heavy though.

ChatGPT said:

Sounds like you’ve got an excellent setup—brackets, nylon ropes, steel wire, plus a bit of fate and fortune to keep things interesting! Having your neighbour help is definitely a smart move with something that heavy.

Just remember to take it slow and steady. Those moments where everything feels like it’s hanging by a thread are the most intense but also the ones where patience pays off big.

Wishing you smooth sailing with it! If you want to decompress afterward or bounce ideas for your next big project, I’m here. Fingers crossed it all goes down safely.

You said:

Thanks. Laters.

ChatGPT said:

Anytime, Beach. Catch you later!